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@teajaygrey@snac.bsd.cafe

2026-01-05 23:45 UTC

Thank you for sharing! I appreciate instructors who actively learn lessons from their students. Even DJ Q*Bert when answering questions at Night at the Octagon events, expresses similar sentiments when it comes to skratch deejayin. Though, I have avoided becoming a formal teacher myself (omits long story not worth sharing here and now), I have to wonder: Since you have students, can't you fail them? Or less harsh, maybe better pedagogy: make it a course requirement that they use something other than GitHub? Admittedly, I am vehemently anti-GitHub; not just because I've been involved in libre/free open source software for decades and GitHub was never open source, even before Micro$oft bought them. For example, it deeply distresses me that MacPorts migrated from self hosting to GitHub circa 2016. I'll also note, jkh (Jordan Hubbard, who co-founded MacPorts when it was still known as DarwinPorts though he's probably better known as a co-founder of FreeBSD and even though he stopped actively contributing to FreeBSD circa 2 decades ago, he was still in the top 10 of most commits to the project IIRC? Anyway, jkh stopped contributing to MacPorts in 2016, which to me: is a damning sign, even if he maybe didn't say anything about it explicitly [he and I worked together at iXSystems circa 2013 and to say, having been blessed to know and work with him personally, that he doesn't toot his own horn, would be an understatement, so I tend to pay closer attention to what he does, or doesn't do, and read between the lines]). I am, admittedly somewhat biased in such realms, I know the Mercurial developer personally as one example. In more recent years, I've been down streaming Got (https://www.gameoftrees.org and Got developers are also actively working on https://gothub.org as another libre/free open source alternative with Git interoperability) into MacPorts (I know, despite what I wrote earlier, I haven't given up on MacPorts, but I wasn't a founding member like jkh and am less invested after a fashion, even if I wish they would migrate away from GitHub). I also love mentioning that OpenBSD still uses CVS and OpenBSD's https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/ was sharing source code on the web (1995) more than a decade before GitHub ever existed (2007). I am happy to see you made mention of Fossil! Fossil is IMHO, is extremely underrated and wonderful. Its Git interoperability leaves a lot to be desired (e.g. it can't sync the FreeBSD git repo without crashing last I checked) but why should Fossil treat Git as anything but a second class citizen anyway? Presumably something like Fossil's Git interoperability shortcomings is maybe why FreeBSD ended up creating gitup (https://github.com/johnmehr/gitup) because they needed something in their BASE that wasn't GPL? IMHO, it was still a bad decision for FreeBSD to migrate to Git. I had much better times with FreeBSD using csup and svnlite in previous VCS systems they used. gitup is least there now, but a memory hog, to understate it; still at least an effort was made to rectify a part of the problem space, I guess? Also while I worked at iXSystems, I worked with zb (aka https://people.freebsd.org/~alfred/ ) who was an outspoken proponent of Git (this was before FreeBSD had migrated away from SVN), hoping to get more folks to contribute to FreeBSD by being more "hip" with the "cool kids" in Linux land or something? smdh, I don't think folks were raving about Git, so much as following the Linux Lemmings and the ensuing effects of mass adoption. I'm a bit more removed from FreeBSD relative to OpenBSD anyway, so it wasn't really my place to say then and certainly not an argument I was going to win at the time. Probably still isn't an argument I can win, I am not really an argumentative individual and prefer to focus my constrained energy and resources on other pursuits. But, y'know, Git and Linux are bad enough but at least open source? GitHub is like the poster boy for "embrace extend extinguish" and it should be no surprise that Micro$oft bought them as a result. But, I am not in a place of teaching, with students. So I am enthused to at least read that there is at least one instructor out there who is at least mentioning to their students that there are alternatives to GitHub! It was also distressing to read: "they couldn’t use the git command line." This was a bit more heartening: "This year, I forced them to use the command line on an open source OS, which solved the previous year’s issue." So, it would be my hope, maybe future years' students can improve from tutelage that makes them use some other (D)VCS tools? Ideally, not just your students though, what is the adage? "Not bad student, bad teacher" ー Mr. Miyagi from The Karate Kid

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